Game Used...Is It What It Appears to Be?

[CamaroDMD]

So, similar to this thread I posted a while back...I had wanted to get some opinions on a card I picked up a while back: https://www.sportscardclub.com/threads/what-is-game-used-coming-to.428601/

I really like this card, it is a 2013 Topps Museum Collection Jumbo Lumber Gold David Justice (8/20). As a kid, I was a huge David Justice fan...I remember fondly watching him hit the 1995 World Series Game 6 home run that clinched the series. To this day, he is one of my all time favorites.

When I first saw this card, I knew I wanted it. I have long questioned the GU authenticity on cards...but I still love how they look sometimes. However...I want your opinion as to "how game used" this piece really is. Here is what the card says:

Front: "Game-Used Bat"

Back: "The relic contained on this card is not from any specific game, event, or season."

Based on what I read on the card...I come to 3 possible conclusions as to how used the piece really is:

1. It was game used by David Justice in an official MLB game (be it spring training, regular season or post season during his career which spanned 1989-2002 and 4 teams).
2. It was game used by some player (could be anyone) in an official MLB game (be it spring training, regular season, or post season).
3. It was game used by some player at some level of baseball (be it MLB, minor leagues, college, semi-pro, or sandlot).

I'd like to believe that it falls under #1. But, the card doesn't say anywhere on it that it was actually used by Justice. It certainly hints at it...but doesn't say it for sure. I'm going to believe that it was...since he played for a long time there should be plenty of bats out there. But, I can't help but wonder if it falls under #2...or even (possibly) #3.

I'm curious what you think...how "game used" do you think this piece is?

 

[ranbethscards]

That's the one thing I hate about game-used... NO specific "the player shown here actually used this bat..."

I have to go with:

3. It was game used by some player at some level of baseball (be it MLB, minor leagues, college, semi-pro, or sandlot).

Press Pass is notorious for doing this when issuing NASCAR. I have a Bill Elliott 2014 Redline Autographed Relics which states on the back of the card: "Certified Authentic race-used memorabilia and a signature from Bill Elliott."

I have to assume that the Sheet Metal, Firesuit and Glove are from Bill Elliott, but that's NOT really what the statement on the back of the card says.

I have 2014 Redline Relics from Almirola, Ty Dillon and Sadler that state: "This card features Certified Authentic race-used memorabilia from (and the driver's name)."

...and not to open a can of worms, but if you mention hockey jerseys and Upper Deck in the same sentence, you are looking for trouble.

 

[CamaroDMD]

I know in the past, there has been a few vintage player jerseys come up as not being legit. The card company buys them believing they are...and then it turns out they are not but they are already in cards. It is my hope that these vague authenticity statements are simply these companies trying to cover their butts by not saying too much specific stuff. Meaning, Topps purchased this bat as having been game used by Justice, but doesn't want to commit too strongly to that because if it turns out they were misinformed...they don't get burned.

But, I just don't know if I believe that.

 

[Taliasen]

"This is a photo of the actual bat/jersey from which this swatch was taken."

Tal

 

[CamaroDMD]

"This is a photo of the actual bat/jersey from which this swatch was taken."

Tal

I have a couple cards that are the same way...there are a few in my Joey Harrington PC. I also have a couple cards that specifically say what game the item was used in...even if no item is pictured.

I have seen people say they trust the "older" GU stuff but not the newer...and I don't know if that is a fair thing to do. From what I have learned, the older GU have more specific authenticity statements...but on the other hand, there are several known examples where the artifacts on those cards turned out to be fake. My assumption is, the authenticity statements we see today reflect that. It's the companies (Topps, UD, ect.) trying to cover themselves legally by being intentionally vague with the authenticity statements...just in case it later comes to light that the Rickey Henderson jersey on the back of the card (which the card company bought believing was game used) turns out not to be game used.

If that is the case, today's GU is no better or worse than the "older" GU. It's just authenticated in a "safer" way for the issuing company.

However, I think that the history of fake items being issued as GU and the change in the wording of these statements has caused the collector base to see these cards as a gimmick at best. As a result of that and the over-saturation of the market, their value has plummeted.

 

[CamaroDMD]

OK...so I have been discussing this on a couple different boards and have been doing my own research on the side. Here is what I have concluded:

As far as I can find, the card companies have purchased various items over the years they believed to be game used that turned out not to be. The source for these items either fraudulently told the card companies they were GU or they simply had bad information. I'm unsure how much research the card companies did on their GU source before buying. However, it ultimately came to light that some of the items they bought as GU turned out not to be. Unfortunately, these items had already been cut up, put in cards and sold. There are a couple known specific examples, but who knows how many are unknown.

The trend I have seen over the years show the authenticity statement on the cards have become far more vague. It seems to me that this is a response by the card companies, probably due to urging from their legal departments, due to these "non-authentic" items being issued. The card companies are simply "covering their butts" to prevent any defamation if future GU items turn out to not be authentic.

Based on that, here is what I believe about this card:

I'm going to choose to believe that to the best of their ability Topps believes this bat was game used by David Justice (whatever that means).

So...I think that the belief that "old GU" (pre-2007 or whatever) is "good" and "newer GU" is "bad" due to the authenticity statements is not an accurate thing to think. I don't think the vagueness of the COA on these cards makes any difference to the authenticity of the GU on the card...the card companies have simply gotten better at protecting themselves.

The down side for the hobby is this has undermined the collector's faith in GU cards.

 

[NorthKorea]

#1 is probably the answer. When you buy "game used" items on eBay, sellers will sometimes (most of the time, actually), use #3 and include in "game use" as a bat being used by a kid who bought it in a store.

Now, to the specific point of cards, the reason for the vagueness is that's how they purchased them. Since the card company didn't choose to destroy a bat authenticated by MLB to a specific game, they rely upon the vendor/supplier to tell them where the item was acquired. No one really cared about that in the GU hobby until 2000 or so. Most bats were collected out of the garbage as broken or given as gifts from the players.

The specific company in question that sold the fake memorabilia was co-owned by Bradley Wells and Scot Monette. Wells is now in prison, after admitting to doctoring retail items to look game used before selling them to the card manufacturers. I think the company was called Authentic Sports Investments ("ASI") or something to that effect. Once the two separated, Monette opened a company called Elite Marketing, which started out good but eventually lost credibility, at which point Monette opened Celebz Direct (which sells on eBay now). He's run that company to the point that it's also lost credibility among collectors, so he'll probably start up a new company sometime in 2015.

Anyway, Wells went to prison, but Monette didn't. His employees use this as "proof" (which it's not) that Monette was never a part of the fraudulent items. Research those two names if you want to learn more.

Back to the reasoning behind the vagueness of the statement:

In baseball, a bat, uniform, ball, etc can be used in practice, exhibitions, actual games, charity games, benefit events, scouting events, etc. Players may give a bat they broke in batting practice to a card company rep, who simply wants a bat that was used by the player. Maybe it was used in a clinic that the player took part in. Maybe the bat was used by players in addition to the one who it was attributed to.

Today, it's easier for a company to "source" bats directly from a player or the team's merchandise director, so game used items are more likely to be legitimate. However, for somewhat the same reason, there is a much greater supply.

Best example: In the 1980s (and maybe 1990s), Hillerich (Louisville Slugger) would manufacture bats for players which were specifically intended for signing at trade/card shows. These bats weren't intended for use in games, so they might have lower standards for acceptable wood quality. Additionally, some bats were purely intended for retail sale. There are easy ways to tell retail bats, but trade show bats require more specialized knowledge of ordering records and player attributes. Due to this (and other similar factors), game used bats from the 1980s are sometimes tough to discern.

Additionally, there are certain characteristics that players used on their bats. The problem is that these characteristics are so widely known/published that bat doctors (think coin doctors for toning) will buy unused bats and doctor them up to look used.

It leads to a situation where the marketplace is like the old West: You're buying the source, not the item.

All of that said, the wording on the card leads me to believe the bat was from a bat that the manufacturer believes to have been used by Justice, but they really can't be 100% certain, since they didn't buy the bat directly from him after a game.