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Must Send First Restrictions for New Members

Mike

TP9 | VC15
I've been venturing out a little to try to reach collectors on other sites who might have some Tony Parker cards I need (not very successfully, I might add). Anyways, one thing I've noticed among most other forums is the requirement that new members "Must Send First". Some of those sites do have methods of allowing established members of other sites to bypass those restrictions.

While I can see the argument that it might make the site a bit safer, especially for trades, why is it these sites require it on sales too? I mean, buyers are already protected, fairly well, by PayPal if the deal goes south. Heck, with the way PayPal operates, most people can get their money back just because they changed their mind. So why force someone to send an item they're selling to someone else without receiving any money for it first? Why not just require new members only accept payment via PayPal?

The first site I ever joined, which was TCC, did not require must send first for new members. Honestly, that was one of the main reasons I ended up joining that site rather than the others. They currently have a 96.43% transaction completion rate. That's pretty good in my opinion. Keep in mind that rate also counts any trades/sales that ended up being cancelled because someone changed their mind after it was confirmed, couldn't find the card they were trading, etc. Basically, in some of those 3.57% failed transactions, neither member actually received anything and in some of those the buyers actually did get their money back from PayPal.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: there is no better protection while trading online than doing your own research, following your gut, and only trading with people who you trust.

Just this morning I actually came across a thread that a moderator replied to just to remind the poster that they must send first, even on sales. My first thought was "why couldn't that have been pointed out via PM". Kinda ridiculous, in my opinion, to post that in a member's sale thread but to each their own. I guess everyone handles things differently. Then I noticed something I found to be pretty funny. The moderator who pointed that out only had 2 feedback points himself. Why is that funny? Well, the site I'm talking about doesn't allow feedback transfer so according to their own rules, the moderator who is letting others know they're on MSF should be on MSF himself!

So, what do you guys think about MSF restrictions for new members? Is it a good thing? Do you think it keeps the members safer? Should it also apply to sales?
 

sliqwill

Veteran
I think for trades, it is valid, but for sales it is just stupid...

unless the site offers to pay for cards sent that are never paid for, there is no reason...I know I wouldn't 'sell' something that I have to send before I get paid...I don't trust people in general, so I rarely trade, I just find it easier to buy/sell...

also when I first got online with forums and such, it was like $0.32 for a stamp, you could send a bubble for $0.68, no one really used DC, but then lots of scammers hit...

when I do foreign transactions on eBay, which is VERY rare, I require them to pay cash, or pay the $30 or whatever it is for international tracking, so since I don't really sell cards worth much, they have always sent cash...or they are people that I have been around with for quite awhile, guys like Paul @scotsman and Kelly @lumm0x whom ive had dealings with for 10 years or so...heck, Kelly was having his eBay mail sent to me (so he didn't have to pay the expensive rates for singles to Canada) and once a month or two id send his stuff off to Canada, and he doesn't buy cheap stuff, so there would be times I was sitting on close to $3000 worth (purchase prices) of product...you REALLY have to trust a guy to have that much stuff going to a person who could essentially disappear...
 

captkirk42

Old School Vintage
The biggest problem is most sites have no set way to differentiate between transactions made through sales and transactions made through trades, they all seem to add up to the overall transaction total. Technically they probably should be able to sort them, but most don't.

A member might be a perfect buyer and always pay their bills on time, but when it comes to packaging up their end of the trade and sending it out it is a different matter.
 

redwing40

All-Star
Its hard to say, most site's are MSF on the first 20 Trades, and to sell you must have 20 positive ratings! I've watched a guy on another site reach 68 Positive trades in a month and then just scammed 30 or so members the month after and never heard back from him since.

And the way I see it, I had to make 20 trades on a few sites, and don't bother me much, If you are legit, sending first shouldn't be a problem. Keeps some con-artist off the forum's.
 

andy

Collector Planet Original
I don't trade much on other sites but would not be willing to send first on a sale. Would resist sending first on a trade but really depends on situation.
 

Mike

TP9 | VC15
I've watched a guy on another site reach 68 Positive trades in a month and then just scammed 30 or so members the month after and never heard back from him since.

I think that's kind of my point right there. Anyone can be a scammer, no matter how many transactions they've completed. I think that's exactly why it should always be up to each person to do their own research on their trading partners to make sure they're trading with someone they think they can trust.
 

urbanmonk

Veteran
I think that's kind of my point right there. Anyone can be a scammer, no matter how many transactions they've completed. I think that's exactly why it should always be up to each person to do their own research on their trading partners to make sure they're trading with someone they think they can trust.

Still getting used to format differences lol....ok first off sorry to dig up an older topic (also bear with me as little sleep as usual and I am known to wander off in thought), but a little insight to the reasoning/mentality behind it for sites that require that (being a Transaction Mod for over 5 years perspective, that being said I don't really like a hardfast rule for that, but if it is the sites rule it is a rule):

Cover the Sale part first as that is the bigger issue for most folks (and I get to explain it to folks a lot due to it being a rule):
Yes Paypal covers you to a point (usually sides with the Buyer large percentage of the time), I don't know exact number as haven't had to file a claim much or know the limit of how long you can wait to file, but I will just use a made up number in example. So while you are dealing with the headache of a claim your money is tied up for 3 weeks, so unless you are using credit it is money from your balance or your bank account being tied up and can't be used for something else that comes along. Also if they use tracking for Paypal but instead of that $50 AU you bought they send you empty bubble mailer or a .05 base card it becomes a bigger migraine dealing with your claim as Paypal shows that it was dlvd to you and becomes more of a who do they believe thing (don't know about rest of you but I don't open my packages on camera for video proof).
Though if most folks would follow their gut more it wouldn't be such a big deal and:
1. Don't make a huge deal with someone you never traded with before (start with smaller transaction first and work your way up).
2. If a deal is too good to be true, there is probably a reason and it is probably just that.
3. Do your research, either if they have feedback elsewhere or you can ask folks that have traded with them if they have feedback on site anyway. Also if a numbered card do a Google search, you would be surprised how many times something shows up in somebody else's PB/Ebay/etc...page. (we had someone trying to trade a card that was in a Mod's PB, fortunately some of these folks not very bright to say the least and make protecting your members easier if your Mods are on the ball).
Personally I don't always follow the rules (will follow my gut), but then being a Mod if someone dumb enough to screw over a Mod then it makes it easier to weed out the chaff quicker to say the least ;) , so guess that is a bit different to say the least. Site I mostly hang on that I'm a Mod at has that rule, you can do what you want (both parties can agree on anything), but if you run into trouble the Mods won't go out of their way to help you get your card/money back (same goes for if you send them Paypal gift, hope they said "thanks" because you just sent them a gift), they will spend more of their time restricting/banning the member as rules in place for a reason and if you go around rules that are there to protect you then you not helping us at all.
Site I used to hang for 7 years (was a Mod there too for much of that) didn't have that policy in place, Site I currently hang (Mod there also) has that policy in place. Traffic on sites currently different but I can base it on times it would be equal and there is a lot less transaction issues on the later site (granted other factors as Mods/Admins check folks out more etc... though, so take it as you will).
So yes scammers/thieves always going to be an issue, but like following your gut you can limit it more with rules like that. And I have seen folks be somewhere for years an have 100+ transactions all of a sudden turn to the "dark side", so yes you can't prevent it completely so it is back to listen to your gut as mine is "correct" more often than not.
Sorry for the long read, I tend to do that sometimes LOL
 
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